Transcript:

Melissa: 00:00 Hello, this is Melissa, Hale-Spencer, the editor of The Enterprise and we have a guest who is all the way across the country. She's in the state of Washington, although she's from Albany County. Welcome Genya Shimkin. Did I say, did I say your name the right way?

Genya: 00:23 You did. it's like Kenya with a g.

Melissa: 00:27 OK. I guess you get used to telling people that. What does it have a fascinating origin? That name is so unusual.

Genya: 00:35 It does. It's actually, it's a, it's a Russian name originally. So my great grandfather came over from Russia in the early 20th century and he lived in an apartment building in New York across the hall from his best friend, Boris and Boris's wife, Genya? While my dad was a kid, he had these memories of going to visit his grandfather in it, in the city and Genya was always doting on the kids and making them treat. So it's actually the, in Russia it is the nickname for both of you have given and the of Genya. So you have a lot of your Genyas running around in, in eastern Europe. So my father named me after her.

Melissa: 01:13 Oh, that's a lovely story. Thank you for sharing that. So what brought Genya to my attention is something that our readers are very familiar with because it's on the front page of our paper this week. We had this story about a law that's being proposed locally, um, to ban a practice I thought was completely archaic and gone: conversion therapy, but it led one of our reporters to do some research and she came up with Genya who had developed what sounds to me like an absolutely wonderful project that I had never heard of before. It's called the Q Card project. And can you just tell us first of all, what it is and then how you came to develop it?

Genya: 02:03 Yeah, sure. So the Q card itself is a communication tool designed by and for Lgbtq youth to support them in communicating their health needs to any, any variety of clinicians that they might encounter. So the idea is that it's about the size of the business card and it opens to three panel and you can write in your name, your pronouns, you can identify your gender identity or sexual orientation. You can write down questions and then it has a little tear off portions that on one side talks about some of the common health disparities that we see in Lgbtq youth, which are not inherent to Lgbtq youth. They are a reaction to the cultural homophobia and stigma that these young people have to encounter every day. But on the other side of that card has tip for clinicians working with Lgbtq youth. And so the idea is that young people can find them out in the world, fill them out, and then bring them with them to healthcare appointments.

Genya: 03:05 Whether it's with a physician, a nurse practitioner, or a therapist, massage therapist of some kind, and they can use it to start a conversation about their needs so that they can feel a little bit more empowered to talk through what they want and need without feeling like they're going to have to constantly be reminding someone. Actually, that doesn't apply to me. Actually. That question isn't valid for me. Actually. I like to go by this name and so the idea for the project a key. I mean I know a lot of Lgbtq people and I don't know any that have never had a negative experience in healthcare and those negative experiences range from, you know, micro aggressions or somebody asking you an inappropriate question all the way up through assault at the hands of healthcare clinicians and healthcare professionals. And that's most of my friends who have experienced those things are transgender though it's not exclusive to them, but we have research that says that an absurd number of especially transgender people experience assault at the hands of clinicians who are charged with their care. And so we have all of this high level research especially, you know, from the federal government under the Obama Administration. We had all this great research coming out about the healthcare needs of the Lgbtq community and some of that even went so far as to make recommendations for what clinicians could do. And I felt like none of that information was actually trickling all the way down to the clinicians in our communities and even less so it wasn't. It wasn't trickling down to patients themselves and particularly it wasn't reaching lgbtq youth who are so often marginalized and hidden, especially if they live in communities where it's not safe for them or live in families where it's not safe for them to come out.

Genya: 04:47 I just felt like so little that information was actually reaching the people who needed it. And so we thought, what if we put the power in the hands of young people themselves instead of waiting for all of this to trickle down? What if we told the young people, it is not only OK for you to talk about these things in healthcare environments, it's really important for you to talk about these things in health care environments. Because if you can, if you can form a trusting, open, communicative relationship with a health care clinician when you're young, it's sets a really important foundation for you to continue to live a healthy life over the decades. Because now you have an experience of what it's like to really feel cared for and so to actually bring this to life, I, it started as my thesis work when I was a master's student in public health at the University of Washington here in Seattle and I did focus groups.

Genya: 05:43 I did five focus groups in the Seattle area with Lgbtq youth. Some of them were in the center of Seattle and then I also went further afield to a more rural conservative area outside of Seattle to make sure that I heard from young people who didn't in the middle of a city like Seattle, which has a lot of resources. And then I did about 25 interviews with adults that work with Lgbtq youth, whether they were teachers, librarians, social workers, physicians, nurses, activists, community organizers. Together we came up with sort of how should the card look, what should it say, um, and who should I target with distribution. So that all happened between 2012 and 2013. So that's sort of how it started.

Melissa: 06:25 So you've got five years, you've literally literally put in the hands of these youth. The power to change their relationships with their healthcare providers. How, how widespread hasn't been, how has it worked? Hasn't made a difference?

Genya: 06:45 That's a great question. I would say that I get, I get overwhelmingly positive feedback from both young people and adults because I think that by necessity distribution has always been sort of two fold, so I always distributed the cards to both young people and to adults who work with young people. So sometimes I get orders from doctors, nurses, therapists, teachers, librarians loved them and then I get orders from youth and so the feedback from both groups has been overwhelmingly positive and the feedback from the groups is a little bit different because the way that they use the card is a little bit different. And so I'm in. So we did the first printing of card in. I first started distribution right around this time in 2014 when we printed the first round of 35,000 cards and since then we've distributed about a 160,000 and they're in I think 35 states and four countries right now. The demand has certainly been high and far beyond anything that I ever anticipated expected plan for.

Melissa: 07:53 Um, so you, you really did see a need. You really hit a need that was. There. Is New York one and do you happen to know if Albany County is one of the places. How, how would, how would someone here, if they're listening, um, go about, you know, let's say we have a youth group director or we have a doctor's office who sees the need for this. Would they contract contact you directly through your website or how, how, how does one go about procuring these?

Genya: 08:31 That's a great question. So the, there are some cue cards in Albany County because my father has a small stash of them in Delmar and I  believe I've actually, I have an order for an organization in Albany, um, but I have large. I've done large orders for the New York City Department of Public Health and a couple of planned parenthood affiliates around the state. So there are absolutely cards in New York state. There are also a lot of orders from college campuses and so there are a few colleges in New York that have them as well, but for anybody who wants to order them, you. My website is Q card, like the letter Q card project. And in the upper right there's a button that says order which takes you to like a square store where you can. We recently launched this new online ordering and payment platform where it's all pretty much streamlined. It makes it much easier for me to track the orders as they come in. Um, and so the, you can, depending on how many you want, it's about the price and then you can make a payment and then they'll get to you in about a week.

Genya: 09:38 Uh, the way that I set up the website with full recognition that there are folks who don't have the budget or don't have the resources to pay for them. You go to the website and you can either order two cards for yourself or you can sponsor in order for, for someone else. And so you could go in and say, I'm, I really want you to send 100 Q cards to this high school because I think that they would benefit from them, but they don't have the funds or you can say, I just want to donate a hundred cue cards. You send them to whoever needs them. And so I occasionally get, I get contacted by small non-profits, families, schools who say, you know, we'd really love to be able to provide these to our youth, but we just don't have the funds to pay for them.

Genya: 10:20 And then I can, I can send them out. Anyway. The goal is to never say no to somebody who wants to request them because I recognize that often and you two are hardest to reach are exactly the youth who wouldn't be able to get them any other way. And so to make sure that we're able to get them out to the folks who need them and to make sure that we're never have to say no to an order. I've set up this system where, you know, maybe there are already a lot of cute cards in your community, but you really want to make sure that they're available to someone else and so you can sponsor an order that way as well.

Melissa: 10:52 OK, and I wanted to talk to a little about the name Q card. I get the pun. It sounds like cue cue and you're cuing in the healthcare provider to something they probably should know anyway, but the Q, on your website, you're very forward about using the word am. I hate to say it because I was raised to think of it is not a good word. Queer. Tell me a little about the use of that.

Genya: 11:17 Yeah, it is interesting. I think it is how much a. there's definitely a generational divide in the community in certain. I feel like it's also a very geographic thing and I think the thing that's unique about the lgbt community is that the Lgbtq community, we cut across all of these other social designations and so we are everywhere and occupy every other kind of identity. And so there are absolutely places in the country where you don't hear anybody that uses the word queer. And then there are places where most people use the word queer and sometimes those things, those divisions exists along racial lines, but class lines along age lines along. I'm like socioeconomic or class lines. And so I think there's a, a criticism, especially among folks from older generations and folks from lower socio economic classes and lower education levels who sort of feel like it's not appropriate to try to reclaim this word because it has a history of violence.

Genya: 12:15 And I think that that is a 1000 percent valid. And I think that especially younger generations have come to really embrace this word for it's flexibility and to feel like, um, words that were more popular in previous generations feel a little bit limiting in a way. You know, I think one of the great things that's coming out of the Lgbtq community today and over the past 10 years is really a push to embrace gender and sexuality as spectrums and not as these static ideas that people sort of, you make a decision when you're 18 that you are this thing and then you can't stray from that thing. And so I think for a lot of us, um, I have a friend from college who said something really beautiful about the word queer and she said, I like that queer is cozy and it's expansive, which I think was that really, that really resonated with me in that I sort of found a home in this word and I recognize that other people don't like it and that is totally fair.

Genya: 13:19 And I've had some really interesting conversations with people who don't identify chosen that. I do for a couple of reasons. I think one of them is that idea sort of an expansiveness. Um, and I do also think I think of queer for myself as a social and political identity as much as sexual identity. And so for me, um, I feel like my identity as a queer person means that I feel connected to people who experienced all different kinds of oppression and that my queerness is rooted in a resistance of resistance towards the sort of status quo and this sort of heterosexist structure. And so I think for me, I see the ways that those same systems have inflicted violence on other kinds of people and it encourages me to stand in solidarity with those other kinds of people. And to be clear, I think that there are generations that came before me who identified as gay or lesbian.

Genya: 14:19 A lot of that resonated with a lot of them as well. So I don't think that it's something that's necessarily unique to queerness. But I do think in my generation that's where that word has come to mean something special for me. And so I've totally embraced it for myself and fully recognized that there are a lot of people that I'm, even folks that I'm close to who feel like that word is still very violent to them and who don't feel good about it. So I think the part of the beauty of this community is that we try to, you know, we should strive to be open to other people's experiences of these things and so that we can, you know, like I stand on the shoulders of the gay men who their bodies in the streets to protest the treatment of [inaudible] patients in the [inaudible] right. And like they are, they paved the way for so much of the work that is happening today and same with the Trans Women of color at Stonewall, right? So I don't have to share their experience to respect that history and to understand that because of the groundwork that they laid down for me, I am able to exist in this space and use these words and live the life that I live now in 2018 that they probably couldn't even imagine 40 years ago.

Melissa: 15:27 Very eloquent. You have educated me gray hair so that I'm from that earlier generation. But when I hear is this is like a brave new world. You're embracing where you're taking a word that meant one thing and really kind of changed its use and its meaning to be a kind of revolutionary and inclusive term at the same time.

Genya: 15:52 Yeah, I think it's very much a reclaiming. And I think part of that reclaiming the reckoning with the pain that the word has caused a lot of other people. I don't think that we can pretend that isn't there. I think we have to acknowledge it and we have to grapple with it. And I think it's OK to say, I know that this word has caused a lot of violence for other people and people are allowed to be uncomfortable with it. And it's OK to create space for this new language. It's OK for that to evolve over time.

Melissa: 16:23 Yeah. So, um, so there's so many things you've touched on in your answers. I've hardly had asked any questions and I just want to go back and look at some of them. Um, when you were talking initially about the need for this cue card, you said you've talked to people that have experiences that range from their healthcare providers from micro aggressions, which I can certainly imagine what they are and understand them and can see how the cue card could help. But what, what about assault? I mean, just stunned me. I, I'm not saying it's not true, but if you could just tell me a pack that a little and, and tell me a bit about it.

Genya: 17:01 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And like I said, we have a lot of research that shows that this is especially common among transgender folks who seek care. One also absolutely happens to Lgbtq folks are Lgbtq folks, but you know, just some of the examples there. Um, if you want to know more about this, you can search online for something called Trans broken arm syndrome. And there was a great thread of tweets and articles about this a couple of years ago. And the idea is that when trans folk going to the emergency room with a broken arm, everybody assumes that everything about their medical needs has to do with them being transgender. And in fact, often you know transgender people are people like everybody else. They get the flu, they get strep throat, they break bones, they get in car accidents, and when they present for healthcare, suddenly everything is about their gender and specifically about their genitals in a way that is clinically irrelevant, right?

Genya: 17:57 If I show up to the emergency room with a broken arm, what difference does it make? What's in my pants? Right. But a lot of trans people report that they are subjected to unnecessary invasive genital exams when they present for care that has nothing to do with their gender and often those exams or non consensual. And so they are sort of forced to experience these really traumatic sort of violent, often sort of. I'm making air quotes here, like procedures that are actually totally not related to the care that they actually need, but they're sort of don't know, pressured almost into like, if we can't do this and we can't set the broken bone in your arm, that's the, that's just one example. But often, um, often it looks like clinically unnecessary nonconsensual genital exams before you're allowed to get access to the actual care that you need.

Genya: 18:56 And then we also have ample evidence to show that transgender people are often just refused care in the first place. Like upon discovering that the patient is transgender, the clinician just said, we don't know how to deal with you here. You'll have to go somewhere else, which is, you know, I don't the, you know, the, you signed to, you signed a pledge that says, first do no harm. I don't know how you turn someone away from care, but it happens all the time. And just fortunately happens to transgender people. Um, you know, other examples include things like same sex partners being denied visitation, which was, you know, depending on the state, um, sort of semi legal until very recently and it was under President Obama, but that finally actually became illegal. But there are, we still know that there are states that, you know, that still do that, but you know, whether it's legal or not, they find reasons to discriminate in those ways.

Genya: 19:53 Um, but I think often, you know, the part of the struggle here is the sort of chronic stress and anxiety of being an lgbtq person. You know, you have to interact with the healthcare system at some point, even the healthiest people occasionally need to interact with the system. And if you carry with you that anxiety and that stress of how is it going to go this time? Are they going to say something? Are they going to discriminate against me and am I going to be subjected to some sort of training or exam that I don't need? Are they going to respect my boundaries around my body? That kind of stress really wears people down. And that is especially true for Queer and transgender people of color who are living at the intersection of Homophobia, transphobia, racism, and so the struggle of, you know, accessing healthcare and sort of testing the like, OK, I have to go find a new therapist. How is this person's going to be? Is this going to be awful for me? Again,

Genya: 20:51 no, I think people underestimate how stressful that is.

Melissa: 20:55 Right, and so much of being healthy as having a good relationship with the care provider. There's so many studies that trust is the foundation of the good health. Well, um, I noticed you had a very slick video where you have, I think three different youth who are promoting this card and I just love the way they're looking right at the camera and saying things like, I'm tired of educating my doctor and it must be particularly hard for people that are young. Um, because whether no matter what your sexual orientation, a doctor or it can be an authority figure and it just got to be hard to have to be asserting yourself. And also a lot of kids, whether heterosexual or Lgbtq, they're figuring out their identity when they're young and they don't really have all have it all in line, you know, to ask question.

Melissa: 21:48 So yeah, it seems like a really important, a really important thing you've done. I just, we're going through our time so fast, but I wanted to get a little bit into your background because I can see the human rights shining through your online resume. Um, you had the bachelor's degree in human rights and Russian studies and I from Bard College and I was just particularly interested in, you said you were in St Petersburg and put the one in Russia. What? Could you tell us a little about what you did there? I'm guessing the Russian studies interests may have come out of your family heritage when you told us about your name or just tell us a little about what you studied and how you ended up there.

Genya: 22:32 Yeah. I went to, I went to Bethlehem central high school and was really lucky that all three of my or my two brothers and I, all three of us were able to take Russian starting in sixth grade, so we all studied Russian sixth through 10th grade regents exam after 10th grade and then when I got to college I was the only one of the three of us that picked the Russian up again. Um, and so I kept studying it and you're absolutely right. It, it had everything to do with my, my family history and the fact that my mother who had two degrees in French and spoke French fluently, said, take Russian, all the smart kids. I want you to be in a class with all the smart kids. And I have to say I don't think she was wrong by the time I finished my Russian classes in high school. I think there were 12 or 15 of us who made it all the way through and a significant percentage went to Ivy League school. So she might have been right about that.

Melissa: 23:26 What's already difficult language, isn't it? I mean, just when you look at all the consonants,

Genya: 23:34 the difference is that you have to learn another alphabet and there's definitely a challenge in that. But you know, reading Russian, it's very phonetic. But you know, the, the more sophisticated it gets, absolutely. It can be a tricky language. There's a lot of cases and genders and like I've, I've unfortunately lost a lot of the Russian that I had. I think the closest I ever was to fluent was when I was in St Petersburg and that was in 2007. And so I, my senior thesis was about HIV in Russia and about the lack of a sort of comprehensive governmental response to the epidemic and looking at how successful harm reduction programs had been in the US and in other western countries and how Russia was just sort of utterly failing at people in terms of coming up with a, a prevention strategy and a treatment strategy that would actually address the epidemic.

Genya: 24:22 And instead they were relying on some pretty unfortunate. And Dare I say backwards, sort of like criminalizing and punitive approaches to the epidemic. And so I, I worked on a project when I was at Bard, I was in a program called the trustee leaders scholars, which was a program that mobilize the students to build and implement and run service projects all over the world. And so I worked on a program that was around HIV awareness and education campaigns and my project focused in Russia and so partly doing language classes in language immersion. But while I was there I was also meeting with the handful of organization and St Petersburg is actually do HIV awareness and education work. And it was very tricky partly because I was there in July, which is the time of year when everyone goes on vacation. So, uh, it wasn't, it wasn't the easiest trying to track people down.

Genya: 25:19 Um, but you know, I learned a ton just by being there. And because I was in this language immersion program, I was also able to connect with called barn has a campus in St Petersburg. And so I was able to connect with Russian students and talk to them a little bit about their understanding and their ideas and sort of what they learned or didn't learn about this. So it's all very much led me to my career in public health and so we didn't have a, you know, more and more schools now are actually offered a bachelor's degree in public health. Um, Bard had a, a global health minor while I was there, but didn't have a full program in public health. And so for me, combining my human rights degree and my Russian studies degree and doing that particular senior thesis gave me away to sort of enter the world of public health in a way that set me up for success.

Melissa: 26:10 Yeah. I'm just wondering where this will lead you. You seem to be so dynamic. I mean, do you have, are you someone that sets out life goals or you can just follow your passions and they go, they go where they. Do you, I mean, do you have a sense of what you'll be doing next or.

Genya: 26:28 That's a good question. So cue card is, is a, is a passion project and side projects for me, so I work about eight to 12 hours a week on cue cards, but it's not my full time job. I actually work at, I work at the University of Washington School of medicine right here in Seattle. So I develop curriculum and programming for medical students who want to go into care of the underserved. And so part of that is developing public health programming for medical students.

Melissa: 27:00 OK. I'm absorbing that. So this is teaching doctors how to help poor people. Is this the idea? I mean there are underserved.

Genya: 27:13 Yeah. Not, not just poor people, but the idea is, you know, the, the physician workforce in this country does not reflect the population of the country, right? So our physicians in the country are disproportionately white, disproportionately from wealthier backgrounds. They are disproportionately able bodied and many of them go into environments where they're caring for people who are poor, caring for the people who are people of color are caring for immigrants, caring for people with addictions, caring for Lgbtq people. And I think, you know, most medical schools don't necessarily set students up for success in that kind of work because it is much easier, I would argue, to be a physician that takes care of wealthy, highly educated people, right? They tend to have more resources at their disposal to manage their own health. Whereas caring for people who have fewer resources, who have lower health literacy, who speak English as a second or third language, who are Lgbtq, it's a different set of skills.

Genya: 28:12 And so what we are trying to do is make sure that our students have the language, have the skills, have the training, have the tools so that when they go out into the world, as physicians, they know how to think critically about people's experiences. They know how to practice trauma informed care. They know how to work with patients at different levels of understanding and they know how to use the tools available to them in a clinical setting. What are they referring to? A social worker or connecting somebody with a nutritionist to make sure that the patient has the kind of care and support that they need and also to think through what factors outside of the clinic room might be affecting this patient's health. Right? So do they live in a community that has terrible air pollution? Do they have adequate transportation? Do they have childcare?

Genya: 28:56 Do they have enough food to eat? Do they live in a place that is overly policed and so they're constantly in fear of something like police violence, right? What? What kinds of factors might actually inhibit their ability to manage their health? So I think a lot of physicians when they see a poor patient with diabetes might get frustrated if that patient is not taking the medication you prescribe, but I think are really well equipped help equity focused physician as the kind of person who says what might be in the way of this person being able to manage their diabetes and what can we do about that to try to actually take care of them so they don't feel just ashamed about the fact that they're not doing enough.

Melissa: 29:35 So is this curricula that you develop widely taken by the medical students? Is it required or is it something that they choose? If they, if they want?

Genya: 29:46 That's a good question. So I work on three different programs at the medical school and all of them to varying degrees are opt in. So some of this stuff is actually built into the curriculum at the University of Washington, which I think, you know, all schools could do better on this, but some of our, some are a little bit further along in the process than others. And I think the University of Washington is certainly reckoning with. It isn't a reckoning with us right now, especially as you know, the, the students who are coming in are more and more driven to push the envelope on these things, which I think is great. And what I also think is great that the university is trying to respond to those, to those students who are saying, we want more about this. We want you to talk about this stuff more. So a lot of what I work on is sort of opt in curriculum.

Genya: 30:32 Very much threads of this tied into the curriculum that all of the students received it. So I work with those programs to make sure that we're not, you know, are we reinforcing something or is it totally redundant to make sure that we have a nice balance so that students are. One of the programs I work on is a training program for students who want to go into urban underserved care. Specifically the University of Washington has a long history of training rural physicians and so this was sort of a, a sister program to that that focuses on students that want to go into urban underserved care. So what are the unique needs of an urban patient population that are special and you know, how can we make sure that you're well equipped so that when you go into residency and then go into practice, you are expertly equipped to care for the unique needs of urban underserved patients.

Melissa: 31:21 I cannot tell you how amazed I am at all. You do. Um, unfortunately we're almost out of time. But do you, how do you restore yourself? I mean, you're just, it seemed like you're flat out helping people in so many different directions. Um, you know, like is there any concluding thought you have for our listeners on what, what keeps you going at this clip?

Genya: 31:50 Yeah, sure. I, well, I live in Seattle, which is a beautiful place that are, they, you know, rapid becoming very expensive and it's a tricky place to live in some in some ways, but it's a beautiful place to live and I have access to lakes and oceans and rivers and mountains. And so that is restorative in its own way. I have a tremendously supportive partner and family out here. And then the other thing that I think I think that I have felt sort of called to this work because I recognize how lucky I've been and uh, you know, I grew up in Delmar and I absolutely had the gift of parents who, even if they didn't fully understand me all the time, always made it clear that I was, I was loved and I was safe and I was supported. And so I think a lot of what has happened for me, you know, I'm in my thirties now and I think I realized how incredibly lucky and privileged I've been and how much has been made available and possible for me because of these invisible privileges that I've had.

Genya: 32:58 And so I feel compelled to make sure that I'm using that privilege for good. And I think in a lot of ways I'm a person who has, I have access, I have access to people, I have access to resources, I have access to tables of power. And so when I was doing all of this initial Q card work and I had finished my initial research and I was graduating from public health school, people said, you're going to do this now. Right? And I said, I was like, I don't even know what that would look like, how would I possibly make that happen? And then it became really clear to me that I was the only person who could make it happen because so many of the young people that had worked with didn't have the access that didn't have the power. They didn't have the resources and I did. so I think a lot of my work comes from a place of not feeling bad for anybody or feeling like I owe people something, but feeling a rooted sense of if I am committed to the liberation of Lgbtq people and people of Color and immigrants and people with disability and if I truly feel like all of these oppressions that are rooted in the same thing and that the solution is to look out for each other and take care of each other and speak truth to power.

Genya: 34:06 then I'm in a position where I can do that. And so I think, you know, my sense has always been that I have to use all of that privilege and access for good. So I've tried to be a person that uses it for good and you know, I try to keep myself open to feedback. So when people. This happens to me from time to time when people contact me and say, Hey, I really like your Q cards, but I wish you had added this or I wish you had done this differently. And then the next time printed. I try to make those changes, so I think part of it, for me, it's recognizing that ultimately I'm accountable to the youth that I work with and who helped me design this in the first place and if I'm not living up to their needs and if I'm not staying accountable to them, then that's when I have to walk away and handed over to someone else because I've stopped doing right by them. So I'm really. I'm proud of what we've done and I'm incredibly honored that these young people trusted me with the project.

Melissa: 35:02 I am very impressed with your whole attitude towards life and I will sign off with the idea of looking out for each other. I just think that's wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you.